
Moshe barazani
Wikipedia says some thing about how kurds and jews are " close ethnic relatives" , os this true?
Kori Gorani wrote:jjmuneer wrote: In regards to to evidence. Well there are several documents and articles explaining the connection to our Median ancestors. Our language, culture and genetics.
Hello;
I am new here and for my first post wanted to reply to this:
Many Kurds try to take a simplistic view of the origin of the Kurds; views that are not supported by historical facts/research. The Kurdish culture and society were well-established before the arrival of the nomadic tribes (Aryans, Arabs, Mongols...). It is widely accepted among leading anthropologists that nomadic people do not really “contribute” to cultures they conquer. What they leave behind is some genetic and linguistic traces. It would be shortchanging the Kurds to ignore their long history by claiming that they are children of the newly-arrived Medes.
There is no genetic paper published about the Medes in any peer-reviewed journal. There has been no viable sample for genetic analysis. I would like the source; it may prove me wrong.
Furthermore there are only “very few' (some linguists say only “three”) Median words that have survived (such as aspa = horse, paridaiza = paradise, by the way paradise has an interesting history....) which makes it impossible to reconstruct any picture, clear or otherwise, of the language. The words that are assumed Median are basically names (geographical, religious...). Many of theses words are “assumed” to be of Median origin. Basically we do not know what Median language is/was except that it “could” be related to Old-Persian.
As for Kurdish language: there is an “agreement”, not proven, among contemporary linguists that Kurdish language is Parthian with Median substratum. Parthians are a very important part of Kurdish history, one that needs more time to go into.
G.
max_b wrote:Its not surprising, if, for arguments sake the story of noah is true, doesn't that mean everyone is related to mezapotamians?
Now what about this?
I saw this from young, on a map in a old bible, kurdistan is the garden of eden?
Other examples show that the life-style of the kurdish group (ethnographic
criterium) is not the only criterium that determines the imputation of kurdish
identity.
Ibn Shaddâd (Bahâ’ al-dîn), Al-nawâdir al-sultaniya in Recueil des Historiens des
Croisades (RHC), or. vol. 3, 1884, Paris, p. 313.
A Kurdish amir, Abû ’l-Haydjâ’ al-Hadhbânî sent a letter to Saladin after the latter
left Jerusalem at the end of 588/ 1193 leaving all the military troups in this threatened
city : “If you want us to stay in the Holy City you will have to stay with us or leave a
member of your family, because the Kurds will never obey the Turks and no more the
Turks will obey the Kurds”.
It is quite clear here that the opposition between the two groups is not an
opposition between two life-styles. The author knows what he is refering to by Kurds
or Turks. This imputation of identity is probably the result of a common selfattribution/ self-representation.
The most interesting occurence is the following.
Al-Isfahanî, Conquête de la Syrie et de la Palestine par Saladin, Paris, 1977, trad. Henry
Massé éd. Geuhtner, p. 375-6.
“When al-Mashtûb went out from jail, [in rabî’ II 588] he was welcomed by his son
happy and in good shape. Yet he found him with a turkish hair-style – that is to say
with braids – he showed his displeasure, he took on a serious tone and said : “The
Kurds don’t have those manners with their hair” ; Then he cut the braids and
trimmed the hair. People thought this was a bad omen for the father : “This
announces a misfortune that will strike him”.
Here is the clearest manifestation of Kurdish ethnicity. What is important here is
not the hair style but the fact that the character considers it peculiar to his group. He
sets boundaries between his group and the rest of the world. This statement leads us
to consider Frederik Barth’s work (Ethnic groups and boundaries). The cultural
content is not the most relevant element in envisaging ethnicity. The individual
inserted in the group establishes boundaries and for that calls on cultural and ethnic
tools (language, race, life-style, hair-style).
Ibn al-Athîr. al-Kâmil fî l-ta’rîkh, Dâr al-Kutub al-‘ilmiya, Beirut, 1998, vol. 10, p. 207.
In 587/1193, after the negotiation between al-Mashtûb and the Franks for the
surrender of the citadel of Acre, the latter promised to free immediately some amirs
against a ransom. They finally broke their word and kept all the inhabitants locked in.
After some negotiations, Saladin made a first payment. However the Franks claimed
the right to free whoever they wanted : “They would free the military slaves (ghilmân
al-‘askar) the poor (al-fuqarâ’) the Kurds (al-akrâd) and the people without importance.
They would keep in captivity the amirs, the owners (arbâb al-amwâl) and would ask a
ransom for them”.
Ibn al-Athîr who makes this use of the word knows that al-Mashtûb, the chief
of the garrison, is amir kabîr and a Kurdish tribal leader immensely rich. We know as
well that al-Mashtûb, a Hakkârî Kurd, was released a year after that. Here the term
Kurd gets into the frame of social categorisation. The term ‘Kurd’ is used in
opposition to the words ‘amir’ and ‘owners’. This use of the term ‘Kurd’ is confusing
because we would expect an ethnical categorisation. The Kurds as we know, are not
the poorest group at that period but the word is used to designate a poor group. We
will come back to that later on.
Zert wrote:Follow-up post.
I made a file in which I compared characters of the 'Old Kurdish Alphabet' to characters of other old alphabets. Some are far more convincing than others.
As one can't upload PDF's on this site, I screencapped it, enjoy:
Serbona wrote:Курди - Сурди
Kurdi - Surdi...OUR old Serbian people, haplogrup E1b1b..Why noses? ha, the same as Etruscani (Etruscans) as Trasani (Thracians) etc etc Your research is going in the wrong direction, the truth is on the other side..If you ask why? Maybe oour first Serbian emperor Nino Belov or Nemrod or Bog Bak or Hammurabi or BAAL is the answer
![]()
greetings
Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], MSN [Bot]